Modern XMPP project discussion - 2024-09-26

hey there. quick question: is anyone aware of any plans for using MLS for private groups on XMPP?

the spec explicitly mentions XMPP (and funny enough no other protocol) as a use case

I suspect there's some hidden cabal looking into that somewhere, but I am not part of it.

too bad, i thought i can find the conspiracy!

not sure if that's a no or not :)

It's a ... I'm pretty sure someone said someone was working on a XEP, but I'm not sure where or when.

Searching my chat logs yields several similar questions responded to with "yes, it's being worked on"

While we're at it, can we get encrypted public rooms with "room knocking"? i.e. admins can vet not only who can send to the room, but also who can read the room's messages.

if you have to ask to enter, it's not a public room anymore, is it?

it's what's called group chat vs channel here: https://docs.modernxmpp.org/client/groupchat/#types-of-chat

because you'll have to add their public key to the "group" and update all group members' shared group keys ✏

plot twist: everyone thinks someone else is working on MLS, but actually nobody is

There is no room knocking available yet though. It may be nice

raucao: https://nlnet.nl/project/XMPP-MLS/

One of the original omemo authors and someone from the Dino team is working on MLS for xmpp.

Hopefully before the end of the year we will know more.

> One of the original omemo authors and someone from the Dino team is working on MLS for xmpp. 🥳 ↺

thx

> if you have to ask to enter, it's not a public room anymore, is it? raucao: it's still publicly discoverable, and open to everyone to request to join. ✏ ↺

> > if you have to ask to enter, it's not a public room anymore, is it? > raucao: it's still publicly discoverable, and open to everyone to request to join. ah ok, sure ↺

> There is no room knocking available yet though. It may be nice pep.: apparently it just needs clients to support this? 🤔 https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#regapprove ↺

great that it's an omemo author, because ideally we'd just call it omemo 2.0 and make it the new default

MUC supports every feature, if you scroll trough the XEP long enough ;)

with today's internet and devices, we can afford one extra message for every message

fugata: you probably need to be joined to do this. You need to know who the room admins are and be able to send a message the room

the room would have to accept the knock message and forward it to admins, no?

i.e. no need to know the admins

because you can't

That's a different protocol then

Ah wait

> the room would have to accept the knock message and forward it to admins, no? pep.: ^ that's what I understood from reading the XEP... ↺

The service sends the message, right

Registration request, that's ibr against muc?

https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#register it does talk about this use-case. So yeah why not

(requesting membership to enter a member-only room)

lol, it's fully spec'd there

> MUC supports every feature, if you scroll trough the XEP long enough ;) ^^ ↺

> pep.: apparently it just needs clients to support this? 🤔 > https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#regapprove fugata: Servers too, fwiw.

Right...