Modern XMPP project discussion - 2023-09-26

Okay I'm really interested in Jabber or XMPP (For twenty years of being a devout user I've yet to glean the difference (from a perspective that will enjoin the typical, **target** end user). This, from https://docs.modernxmpp.org , doesn't help: "Our recommendations highlight only the XEPs you need to implement for a modern messaging application" ✏

If we want to encourage the average, everyday "schmoe", like each of us, in some respect are, then we need to reach out with both clients and onboarding that facilitates the ease of adoption that will swing the pendulum towards average everyday **joeschmoe end users** to adopt. ✏

I don't see that were' doing that here.

Perhaps, one could say that our mission here is to coddle the development community, and by some miracle, our message will prropagate, like concentric circles, through the non-FOSS world, permeating the privacy disrespecting, deprecated monolithic silo system held captive by operatives like faceplant and others as an easy and intuitive way for adoptees to adopt.

That might have been the case with google talk, but it wasn't - the users had no idea that they were Jabber users. Or leveraging XMPP, portablle and able to reach any corner of the communications network, from any other corner.

Missed opportunities - not our fault! Google disguised the underlying infra (as might have been wise) from the users themselves, so that XMPP never needed to be stated or confuse the user as to what they were actually using to talk to grandma, their boyfriends, or co-workers.

Maybe that was okay, but I think in this era where blockchains are so prevalent, we all know what a rug pull is. By virtue of Google Talk going **Poof**, as does so many products that they just aren't interested anymore, it went by the wayside, and we could no longer claim it as something that we were breaking the chains of the user in their quest for privacy, FOSS (unbeknownst to them since the beginning) and second most importantly, freedom.

For the longest time, I used PGP w/my Jabber clients, imperfect, but workable, yet inaccessible for all but the savvy dev or sysadmin.

Eventually, I was able to simply say, "Here's the address where you can reach me!" and just paste my XMPP addy (one which I've had for I dunno, twenty years now?), mentioning that they should use OMEMO coz I do.

Huh, OH mem what?

Well, at least I was able to get people to reach out when they needed to get ahold of me, even if I had to walk them through the basic premise of encryption by default. ✏

But now we're talking about OMEMO 1,2, and even 3 juxtoposed against the availability of MLP with respect to clients that may or may not accommodate.

We need to do better. XMPP is not going away, but there are competing standards in protocols that fragment the myriad choices people have - people who just throw up their hands and say, I'mma just whatsapp and be done with it.

Sadly - those folks cannot communicate with me with their wassup or other Faceplant messaging technologies.

Signal... I'm not going to complain that such a protocol is the embodiment of an antithesis of XMPP, or Matrix, or Telegram, but the truth is that those three solutions for secure e2ee communications systems require the user to reveal thier DID (DID here being reference as the historical and relevant description of a phone number).

XMPP doesn't require any of the tracking constructs that compromise privacy in that regard, and I get that OMEMO isn't perfect with respect to meta data, but at least we're not telling people what our NPA-NXX and trailing identifiers are.

Sure, the people you communicate with might not be aware that you've sold your sould by providing your phone number to a data mining provider, but you know that you have, unless you're of the group that we're hoping will adopt and use XMPP.

This is the crux of what faces the issue of privacy and e2ee communications regarding XMPP. That, and onboarding.

At least onboarding is simpler for the average schmoe than it is when choosing Matrix, which has it's own plethora of idiosyncrasies - unlke XMPP, which is smooth and reliable and also decentralized.

So... Just what is it, or rather, what is our end goal in achieving an onboarding (that includes clients) process for the average joeschmoe, with a simple encryption integrated for privacy concerns as well as an intuitive UX/UI for the user in available clients, AND **EASY PEASY** *onboarding*?

tallship: Unless xmpp develops beautiful modern multi-platform clients like matrix...

Let's talk in those terms, k? let's start with an approach that puts the end user first, and then do the hard work behind the curtain so that they don't have to see what we're actually doing to protect them.

Just my 2 cents :)

⛵️

> tallship: Unless xmpp develops beautiful modern multi-platform clients like matrix... Go on.... I'm listening intently :)

And as a Matrix user myself, I would argue that Element and Synapse aren't that beautiful when things don't sync correctly.

Not to mention that fact that Matrix needs a solution to forcing joeschmoe users to become aquainted with notions such as "recovery keys", that must be backed up and restored, etc. That raises the bar way too high more most average users - We have them beat on that front, at least :)

Well... anyway, I've got the attention of a few folks here. And I'm really not trying to antagonize - my aim is to popularize and gain the adoption of my favorite communications platform for the masses, perhaps stimulating a discussion surrounding this obvious stumbling block central to affecting that :)

I'm interested in hearing everyone's ideas and suggestions in that regard :)

Thanks for taking the time to listen to my rant ⛵️ .

Developers, developers, UX designers

Tldr?

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