Modern XMPP project discussion - 2019-10-17

A lot of anti-UI arguments on standards@

I know some people remain optimistic that the XSF could eventually learn UI, but I think a long road lies ahead of that one :)

I never anticipated 0392 to be the most controversial addition I made

something about bikesheds

remind me next year to add some obviously absurd one.

When we have a number of ux competent people within the community and 5 of them are running for UX council, why not

UI or UX?

U*X

Ugh, I don't know, design stuff

We also need an UWPX expert.

:)

I'm meeting him tomorrow

Well, is not the same

He might not be an expert in naming things, though ;)

MattJ: maybe a "design" category in the CS would have been ok. Just thought of that. Even though what I said about council still holds, I was more concerned about what other people better at me at design had to say (dino people)

this should’ve been mostly addressed now though

(in '392)

pep., a "Design" category in CS won't work while Council/community refuses to allow any XEPs that cover design

don’t blame council ;)

council accepted '392

I don't think the "XEPs should not dictate UI" is actually a good approach to have

But someone has to dictate UI, somewhere, if we're going to actually make any progress in that area

er, I changed tack in the middle of my sentence, I meant to say I *do* think it's a good approach to have

the question whether the XSF is the right place is a good one to ask though

Why don't replace 'dictate' with 'recommend'? (I haven't read all these emails you are talking about)

SouL, a number of XEPs do that already, and people just ignore those parts if necessary (which is ok-ish)

392 can't take that route, since it is pretty much 100% about visual stuff

and UI is hard. So many different platforms with different styles, guidelines and capabilities

and then on top of those you have the users, with different preferences and capabilities

I think XEPs can mandate UX to some part, but not UI

UX example: "Users should be recognizable by their Avatar if it exists and by their '392 color otherwise" ✏

UI example: "The dummy avatar should be a squircle"

jonas’: but even that already exceeds the Council mandate

392 is a nice XEP but I don't see it as a must, there are probably clients that do not use nicknames at all

SouL, '392 is not only for nicknames

not even close

I've only seen the use of it for nicknames

conversations uses it for roster entries, too

right now it's use-less.

what's the right approach to your own nickname, btw? ;)

“MattJ> a "Design" category in CS won't work while Council/community refuses to allow any XEPs that cover design”, yes, why I said what I said about the council still holds

use 0392? use white/black?

Ge0rG, a platform-specific sensible color

which is in fact ideally desaturated

jonas’: did you just introduce another axis for color values? hue, saturation, value, sensibility?

yes

Sorry, I think I've burned out with CS-2020 faster than anticipated.

I wonder why

same thing happened to me last year

wait until Sam starts to complain that everything was too slow

then the fun really begins

Just call it CS-2021 and we'll be fine

ha

jonas’: I wonder if I should blame myself for Kev going on-list.

I wonder, too

or if I am to blame

MattJ: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izQB2-Kmiic

has dwd voted already?

MattJ: I hope we made progress towards the oob hack in 2021 :x

jonas’: you are not, in any case.

Ge0rG, I did interrupt the thing

in another variant Kev might’ve convinced you

jonas’: I was the one demanding a Formal Council Meeting

jonas’: I only realized what I've done when Kev on-list'ed.

I wouldn't have stopped before that.

same

I tried to contact him out of band about the incident, but my s2s to isode doesn’t work

Reminds me of my s2s to 404

the name is descriptive

also this has grown extremely off-topic in this room

jonas’: I disagree. s2s interop is surely a UX problem