Modern XMPP project discussion - 2025-10-28

Was the deal with an integrateable MLS lib for XMPP? I'm under the impression this will greatly improve encrypted group communications for medium to larger parties..

As far as I know, there is no MLS integration yet; yes, greatly improves privacy.

Who specifically is working on it?

Some people got an Nlnet grant to work on it.

They are related to the Dino messenger afaik

It should be ready by the end of this year, but they sadly have been very quiet about progress.

What is MLS

A standard for E2EE developed at the IETF

But I like OMEMO

Then you can continue to use it :)

But OMEMO has limitations

Do you have a link about it

Nothing handy, no

OMEMO is derived from the Signal protocol, so it's well-tested. But it doesn't handle groups well, for example.

MLS follows an entirely different design, and is designed for groups (an MLS chat with 2 people is not 1-to-1, but a group of 2)

That last point makes it a little hard to fit into XMPP, but not impossible

> MLS follows an entirely different design, and is designed for groups (an MLS chat with 2 people is not 1-to-1, but a group of 2) Sounds like Matrix

> That last point makes it a little hard to fit into XMPP, but not impossible Sounds pretty straightforward to me

Except Matrix is semi-custom crypto

While MLS is IETF-backed

Ironically Matrix will probably never have MLS as their "eventually conistent" design is at odds with MLS's epoch system.

They should totally adopt MLS

> Do you have a link about it Some of the limitations are exchanging keys with participates, in a MUC, and across hosts in a federation. MLS addresses this. https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc9420 ✏

This will make XMPP way cooler

Yes, yes it will.