Modern XMPP project discussion - 2025-09-26


  1. edhelas

    I'm struggling making a nice UI to explain what are the difference between roles and affiliations, especially between the Admin (aff), Owner (aff) and Moderator (role). Even for me its confusing. Is there some kind of documentation or reference UI for that ?

    🤔 1
  2. edhelas

    I'm struggling making a nice UI to explain what are the difference between roles and affiliations in MUC, especially between the Admin (aff), Owner (aff) and Moderator (role). Even for me its confusing. Is there some kind of documentation or reference UI for that ?

  3. Kris

    > I'm struggling making a nice UI to explain what are the difference between roles and affiliations in MUC, especially between the Admin (aff), Owner (aff) and Moderator (role). Even for me its confusing. Is there some kind of documentation or reference UI for that ? 🤔

  4. lovetox

    edhelas: don't. Forget roles, show only affiliations

  5. edhelas

    Yes but then how can I handle the Mute feature

  6. lovetox

    Ok that was not good, I retract that statement

  7. lovetox

    Maybe abstract it in the code

  8. edhelas

    Yes but how

  9. lovetox

    Make you own affiliations where you mix protocol affils and roles

  10. lovetox

    Into a single enum or something

  11. edhelas

    I was ready to just put a toggle on that and set the member visitor or not, but a role can also be moderator and participant

  12. lovetox

    Yeah create your own logic how you fuse them into one

  13. lovetox

    For example moderator and admin = admin

  14. edhelas

    And that is exactly why i'm asking the question there

  15. edhelas

    What is your logic and can we define a common logic

  16. lovetox

    Participant + moderator = moderator

  17. lovetox

    I can look it up later in fajim

  18. lovetox

    I can look it up later in gajim

  19. lovetox

    I think you create a hirachy Owner Admin Moderator Member Participant Participant without voice

  20. edhelas

    That its how its done in Gajim ?

  21. edhelas

    You have a dropdown like this ?

  22. lovetox

    dropdown? no, for what? to set a affiliation/role?

  23. lovetox

    https://share.hoerist.com/philipp/message/o7YkOkcjRsRqXqYl/3c19257d-b731-4984-b3da-c00669b756db.png

  24. lovetox

    https://share.hoerist.com/philipp/message/AjG2jVR1cp2jx3SB/734b6833-2909-4b15-ad45-6358ee9609c6.png

  25. lovetox

    note we dont offer a "make moderator" option, as i have the personal ability its not a useful feature for people

  26. lovetox

    - because server dont preserve that role, so once the user leaves the role is gone - i think its a very big big edge case that you cannot make the same member simply an Admin instead

  27. lovetox

    -ability +opinion

  28. lovetox

    i dont see a lot of people have an intersection at, i trust that user to moderate my channel (Moderator), but i dont want him to have admin permission (for some reason nobody yet told me)

  29. edhelas

    So you do have a Revoke voice option that set the member to role = visitor

  30. edhelas

    So what are you doing when removing the no-voice option ? role = participant ?

  31. lovetox

    first voice is a tricky topic that depends on how the muc is configured

  32. lovetox

    it may have no impact at all

  33. lovetox

    i dont get your question, are you asking how i remove voice from someone?

  34. lovetox

    granting voice is sending the server role=participant

  35. lovetox

    revoking is role=visitor

  36. Kris

    > first voice is a tricky topic that depends on how the muc is configured Yeah, a moderated channel and voicing participants is not exactly the same as muting or shadow banning someone.

  37. Kris

    I hope these will get added in GC3 as options.

  38. edhelas

    > granting voice is sending the server role=participant Okay, looks good to me

  39. edhelas

    And is there cases where you send the role = moderator in your code ?

  40. lovetox

    no

  41. lovetox

    i said this above

  42. edhelas

    Then I'll do the same

  43. edhelas

    And make the voice a toggle :) Way easier in the UI and understandable for the users

  44. lovetox

    yes, i would abstract that all in a single list of "Roles" and simply offer actions to change that "Role"

  45. lovetox

    something we did recently is also to remove showing the difference between "member" and "participants"

  46. lovetox

    both are now simply "participants"

  47. lovetox

    and people without voice are "visitors"

  48. edhelas

    Interesting

  49. edhelas

    Is GC3 going this way ?

  50. lovetox

    no idea, never looked into GC3

  51. edhelas

    > and people without voice are "visitors" I'm thinking if it could be a new table on the modernxmpp website for all that ?

  52. Kris

    What about muc_sub subcribers (ejabberd only I think?)

  53. lovetox

    never heard of that and dont know what it does

  54. Kris

    https://docs.ejabberd.im/developer/xmpp-clients-bots/extensions/muc-sub/

  55. Kris

    Something like that will probably end up in GC3

  56. lovetox

    the thing with members vs participants is, that members just default to participants

  57. lovetox

    but thats some rule that the server needs to know, not the user

  58. lovetox

    user just cares, who can talk and who not

  59. lovetox

    But yeah not saying we have found the perfect solution, I feel we are 90% there

  60. Kris

    > no idea, never looked into GC3 xmpp:gc3@rooms.modernxmpp.org?join

  61. MattJ

    edhelas [15:29]: > Is GC3 going this way ? Roles are indeed being phased out in GC3

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