Modern XMPP project discussion - 2025-07-25

SimpleMan: can try xmpp:prosody@conference.prosody.im?join also for Prosody support.

>> https://gnusocial.rocks > Wait, is that a fork of GNU Social Last I knew, .rocks was the real main one. It has info for v2 and v3. Both point to https://notabug.org/diogo/gnu-social for the code repo, which points to .rocks. Diogo is/was(?) the Project Lead. ↺

> Serverless p2p systems usually end up duplicating servers but with a different name, like "supernode" or something, and then you have no control over which servers your data go thorugh. Might as well have the simple client→server→server→client architecture we have now. 👍 ↺

>> One of my friends ditched XMPP for Signal because he did not like the UI of Cheogram and Gajim, and he also finds XMPP server outages to be unacceptable. > Kinda funny given the outages that Signal regularly suffers from. Must be selective memory or a especially unstable XMPP server. 👍 ↺

> Or client-side, portable identities with servers just routing them I wouldn't mind something like what Pidgin does/did which is to let you "merge" two contacts together and treat them as the same person. It would allow me to club friend@facebook.com and friend@yahoo.com as just "friend" in the roster, but would also work for friend@xmpp.server.one and friend@xmpp.server.two ↺

I wonder if that setup could be extended to also visually merge the chats somehow and send messages to whichever of the two contacts was online (which is an extension of what I do manually with friends, i.e. contact them from one account but temporarily switch to another account if my main server is offline, and vice versa from their end)

(I was about to suggest an MUC with me1, me2, friend1, and friend2 but I realised that's also dependent on a specific server not going down)

> russdacic: Let's start with waiting more than 5 minutes for an answer 😉 Sorry I fell asleep

I didn't mean to be so accusatory in that earlier comment... I guess that I meant was: When I'm talking to people on Discord, or Instagram, signal, or WhatsApp, I'm not gaining much over the old Xmpp chats I used to have, but pitching the idea to use Xmpp just doesn't seem to go over well... There was an excellent point made on how many people have GMail and Outlook accounts due to essentially tradition at this point... I just wonder if there's anything an average chat user could do to nudge people towards Xmpp?

I think the main barrier is still the network effect. To draw people over, you need to have a compelling reason like "works much better for the purpose than what was already being used" or at least "works the same way but not enshitified"

The XMPP specs can do pretty much whatever other chat platforms can do, but software still has to catch up. (Not to put down any software; I think many projects are very much working towards adding functionality that users from other chat platforms expect and things have definitely progressed from even just a few years ago)

It would be nice if "is federated and can be independently operated" were a compelling enough reason but that's evidently not the case

I was thinking about yesterday's conversation, and even my brother is an example of someone who very much knows about the problems of proprietary/centralised software like WhatsApp, but still ended up installing it because that's what everyone in college uses to socialise. It takes a certain amount of willpower and sacrifice to make making friends even harder than it already is, and unfortunately WhatsApp is nowadays part of "making friends" for most people there

(He had originally tried sticking with Google Chat which he already had due to official college requirements—an independent problem—but realised that socially people tended to treat Google Chat communication as strictly formal/professional and stuck to WhatsApp for informal communication. And he has still stayed off Instagram, and uses XMPP with those who are on it, so it's not like he isn't trying)

> It would be nice if "is federated and can be independently operated" were a compelling enough reason but that's evidently not the case Agreed. That is enough for me, but as far as my family is concerned I'm a weirdo with extremist views on tech. They're happily using whatsapp because it "just works" for them, and unless those apps do anything thay enshittifies too far, users won't move unless there is thay network effect snd they basically have fomo. ↺

Hmm I suppose it boils down to the degree of importance we give it. For you and me, it is extremely important to the point of being a deal-breaker (well almost; my Google Chat and Discord are still active for the few people there I really want to stay connected to who haven't switched). For my brother it's perhaps important but not important enough to be a deal-breaker (more people on centralised platforms that he wants to stay connected to?), and from your description of your family it seems to be even less important or maybe completely unimportant to them

Yeah, exactly. As terrible as all these companies are, it doesn't really flow into everyone's daily lives in any noticeably significant way. ✏

amazed that you guys have families doing anything other than sms/rcs

Using sms has become very rare outside the US.

My family uses it to message me seeing as i don't use whatsapp heh

And i actually had to turn off rcs on father in law phone as he has no data plan, so he would get billed for data per usage for the "free messaging" heh. Yeah free if you have a data plan. So not free.

In India, I think people are a bit fuzzy about the difference between SMS and RCS (me included). Do RCS apps fall back to using SMS or something? I have a phone that doesn't support RCS, and people SMS me without batting an eyelid*, but occasionally they complain that the photo otlr other attachment they sent isn't going through

* I mean, no more than the usual eyelid-battings of hearing I'm not on any of the popular Meta-owned platforms

s/otlr/or (oops, stevia)

badrihippo, I think what they mean is MMS

RCS is pretty new and an further improvement

Ohh maybe

That's another thing I'm confused about though, because my phone does support that but I've never been able to send or receive one

Either not all phone providers support it (or they require a special plan) or I'm having compatiblity/config issues due to my phone being an imported one

Kris: > Using sms has become very rare outside the US. What messaging has become common outside US?

WhatsApp mostly, and some local equivalents (Line, Telegram etc.)

If Google or other insists on another factor (2fa) for login, how do they send it outside US?

sms still exists and is used for such purposes, but not for regular messaging between people

or very rarely

AFAIK WhatsApp, telegram, and Signal, etc are widely used in US too. Reference: even reporters are sometimes in administration signal groups. Lol

Yeah, SMS is mainly used for delivery notifications, one-time passwords, and suchlike

I suppose only monitoring agencies have an accurate census.

opinionplatform.org, sure, but the US is unique in that SMS is still used for regular messaging. I think it is because there are more Apple users in the US

I was going to ask about that. I was quite surprised actually (and in a pleasant way because though it's horrible for security there's at least no vendor lock-in, unless you count the blue bubbles thing or whatever of course)

Is there a way to do group calls?

Jitsi?

I mean on XMPP.

Isn't jitsi on xmpp?

But I'd like to go to a group chat and hit Call.

More convenience may cost more. :)

(Signal has group calls, IIRC.)

Given the participants don't all have xmpp, it probably wouldn't work, but I'll try it some day.

My family and friends chat is native XMPP and I'd like to do a group call.

If only you had Cheogram, you could try it.

I have Dino which supports group calls, but IDK if Conversations and Snikket Android support it.

Caleb Herbert: You could ask if it works in the Sopranos channel. I would but I'm under threat of banning...

> Caleb Herbert: You could ask if it works in the Sopranos channel. I would but I'm under threat of banning... They say they'll get group calls once the web/iOS app is finished. ↺

> Is there a way to do group calls? yes, some xmpp clients support it (Dino, Movim & Libervia afaik). ↺

Conversations & forks not yet sadly

I'll be glad once the Snikket web app gets finished.