Modern XMPP project discussion - 2025-06-25

Also, the general trend is to engineer for 500000 users even when you're only going to end up serving 50 🥲

> rako: Well, actually the web frontend of Libervia is built like a web framework. I did explain this years ago, when it was still called "Salut à Toi": https://www.goffi.org/b/96207aea-9bd8-4333-a346-63638c041ef7/build-decentralized-internet-with-libervia-salut This sounds cool goffi. And it's using tools like Jinja2 that I'm familiar with 😀 ↺

Will text in the Libervia group about how to use this

badrihippo: it's using jinja2 and nunjucks so the same template are working on backend and in browser, and can also be used for static website generation.

Note that the whole thing is under AGPL v3+.

badrihippo: there is some doc at https://libervia.org/__b/doc/web/web_framework/quick_start.html . But let's not pollute this MUC with Libervia related stuff. Please come to xmpp:libervia@chat.jabberfr.org?join if you want more details on this.

Zash: > a startup with <50 employees and a multinational corporation with 500 000 employees will have different requiremetns :) I'm a bit surprised there are ~10-20 employers over 500k, depending whether you count armies or government companies etc, but you should plan for at least millions, if you ever hope to go big.

The us military already uses or used xmpp... But ai think they can do the work themselfs.

And I still think a single room with half a million people in it do be dysfunctional, even if it would work.

Not if 499 990 +/- are silent and there is a good way to "pass the mic".

In public mucs usually little difference with 20 jids or 1k (tho 500+ of the 1k may be dead/stale matrix accounts).

Along with https://xmpp.org/extensions/attic/xep-0500-0.1.0.html to rate-limit

> The us military already uses or used xmpp... > But ai think they can do the work themselfs. NATO. The us military afaik uses irc. ↺

irc

wow

Are there reasons for that ? redundancy ? ease of installation ?

i mean twitch uses irc, while fortnite uses xmpp apparently. probably someone* knew irc and did that. or the system is old and working why change it

rako: legacy and low bandwith requirements over satcom.

> rako: legacy and low bandwith requirements over satcom. that's totally understandable yet still feels wild ↺

Cool!

> that's totally understandable yet still feels wild In most cases you'd use something even simpler, but the military got good data links, so the bit of overhead does not matter much. :D ↺

Meanwhile the German military uses Matrix

"Please look at the vital information I will send you" A couple hours later: [unable to decrypt message] I can't imagine them in any military conflict scenario, nothing they do works, they are a joke.

[The military, not Matrix]

> [unable to decrypt message] is this omemo or matrix 😂

[although... 🤔]

could be either imo

> Meanwhile the German military uses Matrix Only sort off. All critical communication is strictly forbidden to be done over Matrix. ↺

> Meanwhile the German military uses Matrix So they can't have regiments that are over a few hundred men per chatrooms 😬 ✏ ↺

> > [unable to decrypt message] > is this omemo or matrix 😂 Having far less issues with XMPP [none the last six months] then Matrix [amount of issues: ye, to be precise] ↺

> Only sort off. All critical communication is strictly forbidden to be done over Matrix. It is forbidden, but humans. ↺

It's also illegal to take ammunition home and plan WW III there, but there are regularly such scandals.

I guess 🤷

> Only sort off. All critical communication is strictly forbidden to be done over Matrix. I thought German law enforcement uses XMPP though. ↺

I am not aware of that. There are some non-federating matrix deployments in the german health sector.

The german federal police actually used a Conversations fork for a while, but I am not sure if they still do.

But maybe I am wrong, only sort of following this.

https://element.io/de/matrix-in-deutschland

Mentions a proof of concept implementation to test it where Element directly worked together with the german police.

So I guess its under consideration.

I want a good Matrix bridge for XMPP.

The ejabberd one might be your best chance, as the other two are abandoned.

Alas!

> The ejabberd one might be your best chance, as the other two are abandoned. So we have one maintained Matrix server and one maintained Matrix bridge ✨ ↺

There's slidge-matridge as well no ?

Right, technically the ejabberd one is also a gateway and not a bridge

No real maintained bridge left.

wait, ejabberd's matrix thing actually works now?

I'm spoiled. I'm used to having only one chat app open - my XMPP app - and nothing else. I guess I could run two - XMPP and Matrix.

https://www.process-one.net/blog/matrix-gateway-setup-with-ejabberd/ hot damn. it does. this may be excellent

Is it puppet style?

nein, it's a homeserver-as-a-module

>most "homeservers" are not home servers

Wait, so I'll need an account on an ejabberd server.

yes

or selfhost one

Right. Either way, my XMPP client will need to be logged into multiple JIDs.

Got it.