Modern XMPP project discussion - 2022-02-23

I wonder if anyone has thought about adding a word for "list of chat rooms"? It may be fine to keep the existing terminology (bookmarks) for this, but I'm not sure if other systems have a different word that would be more widely known?

Or does "Contact list" cover both the roster and this?

I don't think "contact list" fits, but most clients would just call it "chats"

or "conversations"

or channels? https://docs.modernxmpp.org/meetings/2019-01-brussels/#group-chats-channels

That's fair, maybe just use the plural and don't have a name for the list itself

I was thinking about a dialog "Remove this channel from your bookmarks?" but maybe just "Forget this channel?" or something is fine

I think "bookmarks" would be a forbidden concept

yah, I feel like the idea of bookmarks is familiar enough to people, but I also don't know of any other chat system calling saving group chats "bookmarks" so maybe it would just be confusing two concepts for most people

It's obsolete for MIX, and for MUC it's mostly just to allow cross-client synchronization of joined MUCs

Because that's what people expect (a chat being visible in one client and not in another is weird)

The bookmarks xep is obsolete in MIX, but you still have a concept of a list of channels being displayed in the UI.

Yep

So continuing to use the word "bookmark" for that may or may not still be an option.

Bookmark doesn't make sense in the way bookmarks are used today

"leave" vs "forget" seems fine as actions

don't have to name them as bookmarks

Sure, that's what I was trying to figure out. I think bookmarks may actually make sense and be fine "I joined these chatrooms, I bookmarked them, now they show up in my bookmarks list", but I'm not set on it either.

Suppose it gets weird with 1:1 not having those actions, but eh, whatyougonnado

Actually, being able to leave 1:1 chats in Matrix was weeeeeeeeird

Favorites? That seems like it would apply to either 1:1's or channels though, so maybe that's a separate concept.

There are a bunch of things that are different between 1:1 and MUC that shouldn't be. More of a xsf@ topic to figure out that tho.

Favorites/pinned chats, read-up-to-here sync, etc.

"Channels that I have saved show up in my channels list", "Channels that I have bookmarked show up in my bookmarks"

Yah, I dunno, maybe it doesn't matter.

Maybe I should just go see what <large chat companies> call this

The fewer concepts we expose to users, the better

"Browse old chats"

Bookmarks are just a backing store for joined chats

"Joined Chats" doesn't make a nice title above the list in the UI though. "Bookmarks" seems a bit nicer.

So I don't see any reason to expose them to a user, other than join/leave (and maybe forget)

"Bookmarks" means websites

"Active chats" ? Hmmm

Normally I agree that the "bookmark on join with autojoin=true, delete bookmark when they leave" works well, but I think in this client I'm going to do three tabs in the sidebar: the roster, a list of bookmarked chats, and an "Open Conversations" list with joined rooms and recent 1:1 conversations

But I'm not sure what to call the bookmarks one. "Recent Conversations" and "Contact List" work well for the other two.

“21:53:42 Sam> I was thinking about a dialog "Remove this channel from your bookmarks?" but maybe just "Forget this channel?" or something is fine”, I’d call that action “leave”, since it seems most clients are converging to a UX where bookmarks are an implementation detail, and the backing store of the actual open rooms.

Sure, the action doesn't matter, that was just an example. It's the name of the list you're adding/removing items from that I'm unsure about.

(but yah, that makes sense, I won't make that mistake in the final copy)

Clients seem to be removing that concept altogether.

Yes, but as I said, I am not planning on removing the concept for this client so for those that still haven't it seems worth having something consistent to call it :)

You “just” have rooms open when you connect, and the list doesn’t particularly have a name.

Ah, then your client is probably not modernxmpp. :p

Maybe not. I'm doing more the conversations route where you can start a chat from a full roster list or a list of bookmarks and only then do they go into the "recent chats" view.

Sam, Converse calls that “Open chatrooms”.

In my deployments, I’ve removed this header altogether.

These aren't necessarily open though

Sam, I’ve never had a computer able to run Conversations, so I don’t know about its UX. ✏