Modern XMPP project discussion - 2020-03-05

s/joinxmpp/joinsnikket/? :-O

might be at some point, who knows :)

I don't know if that's a goal for snikket though

Maybe rather joinmysnikket?

I personally don't believe in public servers as a sustainable model for the network (bootstrapping it, maybe)

But can't rule out a joinsnikket or something

MattJ: I believe in you have the choice (and that must be a valid thing to have a choice)

Few people can maintain it theirselves or have an interest to do so

The opposite of public isn't necessarily self hosted

The point of Snikket isn't that everyone runs it themselves, it's that someone you know/trust runs it

Few public servers are transparent about who runs them, why, how well maintained they are (backups? security?) and when they will shut down and make your account useless

> The opposite of public isn't necessarily self hosted Thats right, still, if you let host for yourself, you have the same problem. Even more, from a public hoster and how they apprear to the outside you can read a lot how much they care. Of course, you can fake it, but how someone writes their believes about data and ToS is a statement I think. And finally, in a close thing you still can be "bootstrapped"

Most crimes happens within the family, right?

> Thats right, still, if you let host for yourself on a closed server, you have the same problem. Even more, from a public hoster and how they apprear to the outside you can read a lot how much they care. Of course, you can fake it, but how someone writes their believes about data and ToS is a statement I think. And finally, in a close thing you still can be "bootstrapped" > Most crimes happens within the family, right?

ups. ✏

I wanted to correct the text, not qutote^^

ah yeah, I’ve read that as a concern quite often already

MattJ, all things you mention are part of the goals of CHATONS, btw.

It’s not specific to XMPP, but many of them are running XMPP services, and we’re trying to encourage the other ones to do that too.

Link Mauve: what's that?

Ge0rG, an initiative from Framasoft to help decentralise and federate hosters of various services around a common set of rules.

https://chatons.org/en

That's great! Also sounds like *IM* might be interested in a German faction.

So Modern xmpp is a technical thing, CHATONS a political one, and snikket is somewhere in the middle?

Rules and values, obviously.

In a traditional anarchist way. :)

Maybe someone should map all these out somewhere :)

Snikket is loosely "applied Modern XMPP"

Maybe we need to consolidate instead of mapping out?

That's not how humans behave

Well it doesn't make sense to consolidate a cross-project documentation project with a specific implementation

To me, "consolidate" just sounds like "give up"

Zash: is "unify" better?

No, I'm too grumpy.

Another reason not to run a public server in 2020+: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/03/graham-blumenthal-bill-new-path-doj-finally-break-encryption

MattJ: Sounds like making even more public outside from US

Other countries will follow

Guaranteed

MattJ: I can imagine, but that issue is not about public servers only I think

It means the server operator would be legally responsible for all content going through their server

Which makes it very unlikely you would ever want to run a server with open registration

It just means that the list of countries I can't travel to gets longer

^^ How long is it already?

> Which makes it very unlikely you would ever want to run a server with open registration Dont we have that particular situation already? And still people run TOR relays?

Varies with juristiction

Zash: But basically they make you already responsible or? EU should go for a new way "digital freedom" turn back their legislations and sueveillance from the recent years (except privacy). Maybe US people start going "back" 😊 And put the money to educational purposes. Win win ✏

Going in that direction yes, last I heard

How does law enforcement and media companies profit from that?

And this is why Germany is working on a new law that will require online services to report user passwords to the police

dafuq

We got some law about letting law enforcement secretly get into your encrypted devices coming into effect april 1st. Secret data reading something sometthing.

Much fun.

In Germany we got that some years ago and the activists tagged it the "federal Trojan"

And possession of hacker tools is also forbidden

HACKER TOOLS

sunglases and hoodies?

And stickers that can be put on laptops

> And stickers that can be put on laptops Cruel basterds!

If they would put their money into IT competence, they wouldn`t fear hackers living on their bankrupt software structure

Anyway, offtopic 👋